Curse

ChyldeOfTheLotus · Jun 27, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Ending a game by beating a common thief is pretty anti-climatic.

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChyldeOfTheLotus

Ending a game by beating a common thief is pretty anti-climatic.

You get my vote.

Vagrant · Jun 27, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Have you never did any of the quests? There are plenty of quests in the game that are smaller things such as saving a village, or rescuing a person etc. I mean you can't really stretch those smaller plots across 25 missions without it getting really boring. I'd rather save the world several times, than rescue 25 villages over and over. Or save 25 different princesses...etc.

Let's put it this way:

Shiro was more powerful than a god.

I liked the story behind factions, and prophecies is rather amazing in the little intricacies of the story.

Nightfall fails at a good story. Bear me for a minute:

In Nightfall, There is a legion already dedicated to fighting heroes, like the justice league. But instead of the justice league, it's the Sunspears
There's a psychotically zealous villainess.
She worships a "forbidden" god and unleashes him onto the world.
The justice league must defeat the villainess and defeat a god.

I may be simplifying it... but that's all the story is in Nightfall, to be honest... and as a long-time roleplayer, I don't take much satisfaction in that story.

"Save the day" is so overused in RPGs that it's hard to consider interesting. In Earthbound, one of the interesting parts in the main storyline is that Ness must venture into his own mind to unlock his true strength. And you literally venture into his mind, and fight inside his mind.

Now, with the Great Destroyer, we're fighting yet another god. Only this time, he's affecting the entire world, instead of just an isolated pocket in Elona. I know you got to keep players interested, but eventually we'll be fighting across the galaxies. :P What I'm saying is we should try downsizing some of the story.

countesscorpula · Jun 27, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by OI-812

Pride. Shiro was written as a prideful idiot, a bombastic fool. He wanted to show Cantha that he had balls the size of Glint's eggs, and he succeeded... in getting kicked in the balls, repeatedly, by the player characters.

QFT. Shiro was no brain surgeon. He was duped into killing the first emperor by a Fortune Teller that told him things like "your swords will be sought after by many" and "Your name will live on for generations." All this was true of course, but not as he expected. Shiro was a fighter... good with swords. Cleaved enemies in twain.

When you think about it, there are an awful lot of similarities to MacBeth. Big dumb warrior gets manipulated into killing the king by some lady (or ladies) who claim he has a brilliant future. Not a big surprise that both of them got stabbed in the end. Well that's too much reading/gaming for you.

sindex · Jun 27, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

The problem stems from the writing it just playing sucks at certain points. Half of the time they are doing satire's on other forms of the medium (Star Wars, LOTR, and etc.) and the other half they basically try too dam hard to create something original. Clearly in Nightfall the whole “you never fight alone,” is combination of both that just got really, really, annoying.

Nevertheless if you write a good plot devoid of melodrama and tasteless static repetitive blunders you might find something you never seen before. I am sorry but I disagree with the OP, I don’t mind saving the world; as long as it keeps you guessing till the very end. I do however think that the next villain has to be quite personal to get my attention.

I can answer you why that plot hole about Shiro, is about though. What was never explained was the fact that Shiro became stronger and kept all of the power he had as an Envoy; when he became mortal. Also the fact he could only go so far from Cantha as a spirit, for his duties only permitted him to stay there (as part of his personal curse). However as a mortal he had no ties to any type of formal duties from the mists, even though he broke most of them.

=DNC=Trucker · Jun 27, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Save the world again from some big baddy! yeah! boooring...

Arduin · Jun 27, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

The Lich was a puppet of Abaddon set on destroying Tyria. Shiro was a puppet of Abaddon set on destroying Cantha. Of course Abaddon needs te be bigger and badder than his two minions, he owns them.

Winterclaw · Jun 27, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Saving the kingdom is what quests are for. To save the world you need an epic adventure. RPGs normally have ALWAYS been about stopping some unforeseen or ultra powerful evil from ruling the world. There aren't many RPG stories that deviate from this.

Yes and no. DQ1 had you rescue the princess from a dragon (first half of the game) then go save the kingdom; DQ2 had you saving the world. FFI had you save the princess (minor quest) then have the world. But then you look at the old D&D gold box games, saving the entire world was never an option. If that's one thing the D&D games did right, it was to keep the scope such that you could be a hero without needing to save the world.

I guess my complaint then is that the adventure always has to take on an epic nature instead of being more quest-like.

Quote:

Though being bored by this means that your tastes are probably on the verge of changing and a nonRPG game with a simple story or no story at all might do you some good.

Not really as I prefer the gameplay and the fact that RPGs have an actual plot. I'm just getting bored with there's always being some menacing thing that's threatening the entire world. It's been done to death. In some games like FFVII and FFX, it works. In others, like FFVI imo, would have still been great games if they didn't have to go all the way out there.

It isn't the gameplay or the stories that bug me, it's the scope and I really think the genere needs a bit of refreshment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde

Ending a game by beating a common thief is pretty anti-climatic.

What if it was the common thief you were chasing since the very beginning of the game, or the common thief managed to get his hands on something very valuable and important? It all really depends on the skill of telling the story and how things unfold.

However, I would leave open that some signifigance in the event is okay (saving the kingdom or town), it just doesn't always need to be saving the world type of thing.

I think that the point I'm trying to make is that it can work, but unlike what's been happening, it isn't always necessary or even good for the story. Nightfall could have worked fine if instead of the abadon plot, the sunspears and the vabbians beat Kourna back to gandara, and over the course of 3 or so missions captured the city leading to the final battle against a normalish human Varesh (she could have been level 30 or whatever) who had a unique skill bar and was protected by a boss of each class. That would have proved to be a memorable fight (depending on the bosses and veresh's skills) and been a game of a more reasonable scope. And you would have still been the hero that ended the civil war.

Milennin · Jun 27, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

I love the 'saving the world from an evil god/monster/demon' thing. Never gets old for me.=P
The story in Nightfall was cool enough, and the fight with Abaddon was memorable; especially because of the fantastic music in that mission.XD
It's cool they continue this type of story in Eye of the North, and hopefully they do the same in Guild Wars 2.
Although it wouldn't be wrong to add some more sidequest with more ordinary bosses as well.8)

Longasc · Jun 27, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I think Mr. Grubb and their other writers need a bit to get off their old-fashioned D&D-Fantasy ideas.

I love D&D, do not get me wrong. But the genre developed into another direction and offers much more than old and boring evil god vs good peasants stories.

Highly acclaimed is "The Song of Ice and Fire" by George R.R. Martin. The first novel is aptly titled "A Game of Thrones".

The supernatural elements and fantasy-typical elements are there, but they did not play a major role so far. It was more about medieval courtly intrigue, games of power and ambition. In between all this we get to see the fates of several characters from their point of view, which is often really surprising.

The villain Jaime Lannister, initially the "kingslayer" and outright ruthless and vile, gets much more human and likeable in the course of the series.

There are some supernatural elements looming in the north outside the "Wall", and some Dragons on another continent, but the story works surprisingly well without GODS. I am afraid Martin could fall for the typical fantasy trap and make a dark and omnipotent god or whatever invade the world. But he did VERY well without all this so far, his medieval fantasy set for me the standards for modern fantasy.

keli · Jun 27, 2007, 11:34 AM // 11:34

We didn't save the world 3 times, we saved it once, from abaddon..
yeah, shiro and lich belong to him, and i really like the story, how the 3 parts connecting to each other,
example: a quest let you know that abaddon sent a demon that made shiro against the emperor..
it is really worth to do quest in nightfall...

Kakumei · Jun 27, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Congratulations, heroes, you have defeated the fallen god Abaddon and restored peace to the world.

Your next task is to bake cookies.

Yes, they need to keep upping the ante. This is what fantasy RPGs are all about.

Lodurr · Jun 27, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Yes, they need to keep upping the ante. This is what fantasy RPGs are all about.

I disagree about upping the ante. They need to keep the drama at the same level as the previous titles, so that it can't be compared poorly to the other chapters.

Ideally they should've had a wide story arc that involves all the events of the previous chapters, and the final chapter could have a real climax and resolution. People would want to get all the chapters to get the whole story. With the completely isolated storylines, new players that get done with Prophecies might heed everyone's advice and skip Factions and go straight to Nightfall.

Longasc · Jun 27, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Well, in GWEN the world is about to end, drastic changes, etc. etc....

I would say the end of the world is the absolute climax. So well, for GW we do not need to think about that anymore.

Fantasy RPG might be about progression, but it is the ultimate crux of any MMO. Most visibile in EverQuest and its expansions, the immense power creep made things more and more stupid.

A good and compelling storyline - that is what is needed, and it is not achieved by rising the stakes even more. Once you saved the world and the universe plus everything that is good, holy and your family and whatever, you will get the idea that "upping the ante" is just a crappy solution when there is a lack of ideas.

Bazompora · Jun 27, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

First an Evil Lich, then a Demi God, then a Fallen God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant

Now, with the Great Destroyer, we're fighting yet another god. Only this time, he's affecting the entire world, instead of just an isolated pocket in Elona.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

Now what?

Our characters all die a ridiculously normal death by natural aging between GW:EN and GW2.
Am I the only one to find this kind of redundant as closure for above-the-divine saviours of the world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

It worked for Dragonball Z. Why not Guild Wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

It's cool they continue this type of story in Eye of the North, and hopefully they do the same in Guild Wars 2.

GW2 will add the Z-axis: the only component that was missing to allow our characters to develop ...
high-speed levitation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Now I'm plotting to overthrow Dwayna.

I don't see why that shouldn't be possible in GW2.
I'll take on Grenth ... or Balthazar ... or ... why not both? After that, you're next.
Y'know ... this (players impeaching gods) could actually be some interesting new gameplay for GW2, no?

GW scenarios have been bleak from the start; they'd better give us the tools in GW2 to RP our world story together ourselves.

Retribution X · Jun 27, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Bah. I like the story of prophecies. the first time through it, well it was cool. It had an immersive storyline.

Factions was, Blah.

Nightfall was, Hmm, BLECH!

GW:EN should have bothe Kuuvang, and Glint, and I'll be happier...

lyra_song · Jun 27, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Can we be the bad guy next time??

*smirks evily*

Seriously though, i dont think Shiro is much more powerful than the Lich was. While abbadon might have been a fallen god, what he does show is that the god are "weak".

Upping the ante would involve a bad guy stronger than the current gods (similar to the titans vs the Olympians in Greek Mythology).

Which sounds fun. someone mentioned the coming of ragnarok, its a good analogy.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 27, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

The Best bit of prophecies IMO was playing Pre-Searing to Kryta, in reality the Charr have been a very minor race in gw thus far, but they have made a large impact on people because the early prophecies events were smaller scale and more personal. As a hero then your job was 1st to defend Ascalon from the Charr and then lead some surivors across the mighty Shiverpeaks to establish a new home. I would have been very excicting to help them establish it and watch it grow, (kinda like the command post missions crossed with the way Nf changes maps to Update them to teh current world status)

Although i have liked all the story so far very much so, i did find the whole Abaddon is behind everything kinda a big Scape goat. I hope Gw 2 goes back to its smaller scale roots and return it to the fun-ness that gw started as rather than the Hardcore Gw its become.

Spazzer · Jun 27, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Devona, what does the scouter say about his power level?

Gwmaster · Jun 27, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

they should make it fable style..i want to marry and kill my wife so i get horns Muahahahaha